The quality of this site

Well,

I know that this is going to quite probably hack some people off, but as it is NOT against the rules and not being abusive but a factual observation on my part I am going to say it.

The quality of the stories that are being posted on this site from new so called authors (no they do not deserve the capital) has gone down the toilet from what it was a number of years back.

Also the hypocrisy of people is astounding. Take for example that it seems that for a number of these so called authors it is quite okay to post stories about illegal activities such as kidnapping, slavery and the like WITHOUT any form of disclaimer what so ever, and they “claim” creative licence and the like, and yet they squark if someone else boarders on child molestation.

A number of them can not even take criticism, and when you do criticize them you have idiots replying that they do not understand the criticism, which is actually none of their concern if they are too dumb to understand it, as it was not a message to them anyway.

With one story I did state that had way too many errors, which was a fact the response was that they were proud that they were not a copy editor and that they found my criticism rude, and that they had read stories with far more mistakes.

I make no apologies for being straight up. If that particular person were to ever send work to a publisher they would be laughed at. At best they are a third rate amateur and will never be anything more.

I am only following three stories on this site now. I refuse to even read any story that has not been finished, as for others I read the first paragraph or two, find it full of errors and extremely objectionable to me and then that author loses a reader for anything else.

It is truly sad to see how far this site has slipped down the toilet.

It seems that the rejects from other sites are now making their way here.

Re: The quality of this site

Oh SNAP!

I just got my s$%t called out, didn’t I. I remember that post, and my reply about not being a copy editor. I used the word “happy” not “proud.” I am not “proud” of not being a copy editor; I had that job for awhile and I hated it. Hence, I am “happy” to no longer be a copy editor. I am also not proud of my grammatical errors but, because I am not being paid for any of my writing (which I enjoy; that’s why I do it), and editing (which I do not enjoy) I feel that giving it a once-over (sometimes twice) proofing is polite enough to those who would read it. Are you arguing that if my work is not ready for publication that I should not post at all?

Now, you’ve called me a third rate amateur (which should be written third-rate amateur because, after all, if two adjectives modify a noun in a single concept the adjectives should be hyphenated) which is obviously an insult and further, you prophesy a curse upon me that I shall never be anything more and that if I should ever send work to a publisher that I would be laughed at. Well, in the name of Christ I reject your curse. (Also, as an aside, when you speak about an individual, you shouldn’t use the pronoun “they”).

Also, unless you have an objective rating system of authors, I’ll think you’ll find that “third-rate” is more opinion than factual observation. Further “way too many errors” is an opinion. Had you stated, for instance, that I made 57 errors, that would be a factual observation. I also would have absolutely no bone to pick with such a careful and astute observation. Even better, you could point out which errors and I’d even go and fix them. I asked you to be more specific - but you never took the time to do that. Instead, you just made general, sweeping, insulting statements to a contributor because you did not enjoy the way one of my characters reacted to the death of her parents. (see post and quote here: http://abdlstoryforum.info/forums/index.php/topic,5846.msg60997.html#msg60997)

Now, I’m not arguing with you entirely about the quality of the writing on the site. I think it’s that there’s the same amount of good writing (although some of my favorites haven’t written much of late - Kita, I’m begging you… I’m sure you’re busy :frowning: ) and more that there is a lot of bad writing which gets in the way of finding the good stuff. But I am kind of insulted that you’re claiming (or at least insinuating) that my work is what is dragging the quality of the site down.

Lastly,

Also the hypocrisy of people is astounding. Take for example that it seems that for a number of these so called authors it is quite okay to post stories about illegal activities such as kidnapping, slavery and the like WITHOUT any form of disclaimer what so ever, and they “claim” creative licence and the like, and yet they squark if someone else boarders on child molestation.

There is a reason for this one, and it is not hypocritical. As much as we play at literature, I think most of us realize it is still semi-erotica because, regardless of lifestyle, ABDLism is considered a fetish by the public at large. Kidnapping, slavery, and illegal activities are plot complications (hopefully) portrayed in a negative way and are used for keeping the plot from being only about diapers which, after 50 stories, would be very boring. Child molestation, when it appears, is not always presented in a negative light and that fact is very scary. There are horrible consequences to it and portraying that in a romanticized way is dangerous and wrong, especially in works that are already semi-erotica. We can’t have the child molestation element mixing with the erotic element unless it is unromanticized, realistic, and the negative consequences are born out. To do otherwise would be akin to promoting child molestation. Do we promote diaper-wearing? Yes, and while that may also be wrong, that ship has sailed on anyone who has found their way to this site and is reading these stories- they’re not being corrupted or encouraged by diaper stories.

TL;DR If you don’t like it, Wimsett, why don’t you post something better and show us all up.

Re: The quality of this site

I think it would be nice if people would not give bland criticism, or just say “good story, can’t wait for more” when in fact the story is beyond sub par. (Which like wimsett said is now more par for the course)

If you can’t take real criticism, than don’t post your story here.

Re: The quality of this site

I agree completely, I’ve made an effort to post specific criticisms a number of times on this board (you can check my previous posts) because I do not think there is enough of it. I even did one for you: http://abdlstoryforum.info/forums/index.php/topic,5494.msg61484.html#msg61484

I don’t think this is an issue of my not taking Wimsett’s criticism well. If you’ll review my stories you’ll see that, on occasion, I have revised chapters based on my readers suggestions. I appreciate constructive criticism. I take issue with criticism that is not constructive but simply insulting, that’s all. Besides, as I said above and as you can read from Wimsett’s original post to me, his issue was my characterization not my grammar, he just threw in the grammar (I believe) to lend credibility to his complaints. I say this only because he has never actually given me any specifics on the grammar issues he identified.

Re: The quality of this site

This. Emphatically.

Whetoric is one of the better (and more prolific among the better) authors on this site. If Whetoric’s stuff is “third-rate amateur” to you, then I defy you to demonstrate to us what is top-flight, and I suggest you do so by writing it yourself, since you seem to be such an expert.

Or are you positioning yourself as the Roger Ebert of AB stories, someone who unabashedly criticizes works without having even a thimble-full of talent with which to produce superior work?

Whetoric is a damned fine writer. At least as good as I am, and a lot more prolific. And yeah, I’d consider myself to be at the top tier of what is available here, even if most of what I have here is unfinished.

Re: The quality of this site

While I don’t believe that one needs to be more talented than the author to criticize them (knowledge does not always translate to application, I read a lot so I can spot issues and mistakes just as well as someone who writes a lot) I do not think raging against the new authors is going to help much (if they leave then they may give up on writing and never improve, thus depriving us of yet more good stories in the future). I’m willing to give them a chance and try to help them when I believe I can (newer artists can be sensitive I will admit, I’ve been there).

Re: The quality of this site

Thanks WBDaddy, that means a lot coming from you. I appreciate the support. I usually think myself reasonable but, sometimes, I worry that perhaps I’m unreasonably stuck to my own point of view. As I respect and enjoy your writing, it means a lot to hear the same from you.

I agree, I don’t think you need to be a good writer to criticize. However, you do need a strong command of the rules of English. Critics do not refrain from writing because they don’t understand writing, grammar, and flow; they refrain from writing because they don’t have a vision to share in prose form or they don’t have the urge to share it.

I’m also not that new. I’ve been posting long enough that Wimsett won’t scare me off. Also, I once posted my opinion on the types of writers here:

Of course, I’ll step off my high-handed quote there and admit that my motivations are a combination of the 1st and 3rd point I made. The point is, the crappy new authors will either continue to post and get better without feedback or even with negative feedback if they love the craft. Otherwise, they’re just looking for praise and won’t get better no much how much positive feedback you give them because they don’t want to improve - they want to be praised.

I wrote awful stuff as a teenager for other sites a decade ago. I was rightfully called out on it. I took it to heart and got better. By the time I came here, I’d refined my craft enough that I didn’t go through the hazing - I’d already gotten that elsewhere.

Re: The quality of this site

Wimsett was not saying we had any such stories; he was complaining that we were hypocritical for removing/complaining about such stories while allowing stories about kidnapping and slavery to remain. I explained why I thought the admins dealt with it the way they did, and why the site’s stance made sense to me. He’s been ranting about this for awhile see: http://abdlstoryforum.info/forums/index.php/topic,6158.msg60212.html#msg60212. I agree that kidnapping and slavery are wrong, but he’s making this odd censorship point about convicting those who write about such things of a crime.

It’s only obvious if you know the posts he is referring to, if you read the ones I linked below, it’s patently obvious:

This alludes to StoryTime’s response here: http://abdlstoryforum.info/forums/index.php/topic,5846.msg60999.html#msg60999 in which StoryTime explains he just didn’t “understand the critique.” Here, Wimsett interprets that to mean that StoryTime actually did not understand what Wimsett wrote. This was not the case; what StoryTime obviously intended to convey was that he disagreed with Wimsett’s critique and cited a number of facts but used the phrase “don’t understand” to soften the blow, to be polite, so that Wimsett could be more specific if he’d misunderstood.

Here, Wimsett both misquotes me and misrepresents the intent of my original reply. Yet, he’s obviously referring to this post: http://abdlstoryforum.info/forums/index.php/topic,5846.msg60997.html#msg60997.

I’m beginning to wonder if Wimsett’s interpretation/representation issues are second-language errors as opposed to something purposeful. A lot of errors in his posts one would expect to have caught with a spell-checker so, maybe, he’s using another language software program to write. I certainly do not want to accuse him of purposefully misrepresenting what people say unless it’s truly the case so I’ll assume it’s a second-language issue. However, I don’t think a person with significant second-language errors is in any position to be critiquing works written in English.

He also has a general complaint about unfinished stories, but every specific complaint he made referred specifically to the comment he made, and our responses, in the linked thread. I don’t really mind, I just have a good memory and I assumed he wanted me to know he was talking smack about me because he was so specific. I like to face stuff head-on, so I just was open about it and linked the thread.

LOL, I feel like I’m doing a research paper. I don’t really care about this, I just like everyone to be able to see the whole, long-term conversation. Heck, Wimsett’s post on my story might have even been a reaction to my early rebuttal of his hardcore stance on censorship. I do appreciate Wimsett making a new thread for this though, as opposed to gumming up the Board Member Stories section with this stuff.

Re: The quality of this site

Some of the stories are indeed trash. There are a few good writers here: about ten or fifteen. There are also people that take way too long between posts, but there is real life and we are not making money at this.

Wimsett, please post your story and I will read it. I will give one feedback to one of your story posts.

New writers do really suck, but we all used to suck. I went back to read my really old stories and they are really just so sad. You get much better with lots of practice. Just skip the story if it is too horrible.

As for stories that aren’t finished here, that is the nature of posting chapter by chapter as you write. The better way to write a story is to write the entire story, then edit it before posting it. Of course, nothing would get posted here if that were the case. However, anything sent to a publisher would be written before hand. You don’t submit to an editor on a chapter to chapter basis. Think of all these stories posted here as polished rough drafts, because that is what they are.

Re: The quality of this site

No doubt, my first completed story effort, while praised emphatically by folks at ADISC, was a piece of shit. Forced plot, completely unbelievable progressions, ham-handed dialogue… it was just garbage.

Granted, I’m the type of person who would take someone ripping my stuff apart as a challenge to do better, but I also get that most people’s egos aren’t as unflappable as mine. I’d rather someone trash my shit than no one say anything at all, because I know personally that I don’t bother commenting on stories that have no merit whatsoever…